... the flavor of these criticisms is the frequent review that SOS games involve too much dice rolling. One of the reasons I love the SOS series generally is that I love the history itself, and find a "flash card-like" experience to be both immersive and also quite different from other wargames; for example, I like "Kaiserkrieg," but to me it misses the flash-card like experience of Soviet Dawn, Hapsburg Eclipse, MaltaBeseiged and Ottoman Sunset. To me, the thing that elevates a great SOS game above the others is the uniqueness/variability of its gameplay; the different game play variation mechanisms (red army reoganization, Mackensen tiles, radio intercepts, etc.) both have a strong historical tie and yet make the game more complex than simply rolling dice and drawing cards. For some reason, although I love the french revolution from a history perspective, I really don't like Levee en Masse, as I find the historical narrative poorly correlated with the track advances, I find the political tracks too overplayed and too easy to manipulate, and I don't like that the game implicitly suggests disdain for the real historical outcome (Napolean rising to power). Irrespective of one's view, SOS games are clearly about the actual history itself and not so much about the fact that one is playing a game with random outcomes.
I don’t think SoS games are wargames. Wargames have predictive analytical force and utility for military professionals. I would characterize SOS games as light strategy games with a historical themes. It just so happens SoS games were created by wargamers. Thus, they inherited a lot of wargame assumptions in their aesthetics to the detriment of broadening their market appeal.
Another way I would contrast wargames and SoS games is wargames are like novels, whereas SoS games are more akin to poetry. The ideal SoS game is very evocative. I would add this is not a criticism, merely a clarification.
I don't have the great enthusiasm for the States of Siege games that you have, but I truly appreciate the in-depth analysis you offer your readers--both on the games themselves, and (in this case) the gamers and critics.
I think it is the prospect of grimly hanging on against long odds. I prefer a game where I can build a position, even if another player pulls ahead of me to win (e.g. Wings for the Baron). That said, reading your posts has opened my eyes to new possibilities, ideas for doing more in the SoS games than grimly hanging on. I should also add I game primarily for social reasons, so solitaire games are not my first choices. However I do like historical games with a deep themes and good narratives. The SoS games come with the former, and you add the latter!
Take a look at Mound Builders, if you can find it. The setting is North America. There were these Indian tribes that created a trade system. So you spend the first two acts building up your empire by trade and conquest. Then, the Spaniards show up like Godzilla.
I never enjoyed the trade/build-up dynamic. More of a glory guy. Sounds like it might be of interest to your temperament.
I'll keep an eye out for it. It's a shame so many of the old VPG games are out of print and so hard to find. Did Alan leave the copyrights with the designers? I'm surprised somebody hasn't negotiated for them and set up a company selling print-and-play versions to download for a small fee. Sort of like what Minden Games or Black Cat do on Wargame Vault. I think there's a business opportunity there.
Have you ever considered designing a SoS game? I know you've worked as a developer on some. As far as I know, Ben is the only person still designing them, and his designs are rather long and complex. Do you think there is still a market for new SoS games that could be played in an hour or less?
I had been thinking about buying Soviet Dawn for about 12 months but what pushed me to do it was reading you had played it over 2,000 time. Heck what was that all about ? What does it say about the game. Within the first five days I played it nearly 20 times. Lost many, won some. What a game. Reading your insights enabled me to start getting more strategic. Sorry Tzar !. Now I own Ottoman Empire, Hapsburg Eclipse, Keep Up The Fire, Malta Besieged. I'm holding off Cruel Necessity because of its inbuilt flaw. But thanks for introducing me into the world of SOS. Keep up the good work.
Excellent all around. I hadn't considered the point on moving text to the rulebook or a playbook. This is the case with many CDGs where you get the headline and can check design notes in the rules. Of course that's motivated by the original published format but would take no more than one additional letter sheet in the rulebook, or 2 if being generous with font size.
I agree many criticisms are on account of a failure to engage with the game on its terms.
Re: White Dog, do you have a recommendation for a first game? I have OS, HE, and MB. Given previous DMs Jeff Davis or the Mission seem obvious choices.
One other thought - per my prior comment, SOS games to me are about the history and replay the events much like a history-flash-card experience, but with thought-provoking variations. I truly love this combination. However, the fact that I have such an interest in the card experience itself and the history also explains why I was so profoundly disappointed with VPG's re-release of OS and HE; the numerous typographical errors, right down to stating that WWI spanned "1914-1916" on the box cover one of these, and the fact that the historical event text are in, e.g., "2 point font" (i.e., I have trouble reading them WITH my readers) really corrupted their attempt to re-release these classics. These are games I frequently play and that I want in my library, and I am reminded about these notorious errors each and every time I take these games off the shelf, i.e., they manifest themselves in the part of the game I value most. For me, it's about the history, and I really wish that Worthington would pick up some of the other titles and re-release them, in the same fashion that they did for e.g., Soviet Dawn, i.e., with a big quality boost and with reasonably-sized, reasonably-error-free text.
I hear you. I understand how some errors can be maddening. Let it go. It is water under the bridge. Sadly, we live in an age of historical illiteracy.
Game publishing is full of challenges. With Tabletop Tycoon, the SoS games had no champion. There was no real developer who loved the games. Just a graphics guy with a million things to do. Darin asked me for a little help late in the game. The TT guy just wanted to get these projects off his list.
Worthington brings many strong talents, but they can also be sloppy. They are a small publisher with many projects. Getting projects done, even imperfectly, is a priority.
At least with VPG, SoS games had a champion. But, these versions also suffered from time constraints and strong design assumptions. Compromises every where.
We can all see it. Part of the larger problem is how the internet and various technologies discourage people from knowing things because you can look things up so easily. This was very useful in my former IT life. However, people’s general knowledge is much lower. Because of this, it is difficult to think deeply about anything.
... the flavor of these criticisms is the frequent review that SOS games involve too much dice rolling. One of the reasons I love the SOS series generally is that I love the history itself, and find a "flash card-like" experience to be both immersive and also quite different from other wargames; for example, I like "Kaiserkrieg," but to me it misses the flash-card like experience of Soviet Dawn, Hapsburg Eclipse, MaltaBeseiged and Ottoman Sunset. To me, the thing that elevates a great SOS game above the others is the uniqueness/variability of its gameplay; the different game play variation mechanisms (red army reoganization, Mackensen tiles, radio intercepts, etc.) both have a strong historical tie and yet make the game more complex than simply rolling dice and drawing cards. For some reason, although I love the french revolution from a history perspective, I really don't like Levee en Masse, as I find the historical narrative poorly correlated with the track advances, I find the political tracks too overplayed and too easy to manipulate, and I don't like that the game implicitly suggests disdain for the real historical outcome (Napolean rising to power). Irrespective of one's view, SOS games are clearly about the actual history itself and not so much about the fact that one is playing a game with random outcomes.
I don’t think SoS games are wargames. Wargames have predictive analytical force and utility for military professionals. I would characterize SOS games as light strategy games with a historical themes. It just so happens SoS games were created by wargamers. Thus, they inherited a lot of wargame assumptions in their aesthetics to the detriment of broadening their market appeal.
Another way I would contrast wargames and SoS games is wargames are like novels, whereas SoS games are more akin to poetry. The ideal SoS game is very evocative. I would add this is not a criticism, merely a clarification.
I don't have the great enthusiasm for the States of Siege games that you have, but I truly appreciate the in-depth analysis you offer your readers--both on the games themselves, and (in this case) the gamers and critics.
Thank-you.
What is the source of your un-enthusiasm for SoS games?
I think it is the prospect of grimly hanging on against long odds. I prefer a game where I can build a position, even if another player pulls ahead of me to win (e.g. Wings for the Baron). That said, reading your posts has opened my eyes to new possibilities, ideas for doing more in the SoS games than grimly hanging on. I should also add I game primarily for social reasons, so solitaire games are not my first choices. However I do like historical games with a deep themes and good narratives. The SoS games come with the former, and you add the latter!
Take a look at Mound Builders, if you can find it. The setting is North America. There were these Indian tribes that created a trade system. So you spend the first two acts building up your empire by trade and conquest. Then, the Spaniards show up like Godzilla.
I never enjoyed the trade/build-up dynamic. More of a glory guy. Sounds like it might be of interest to your temperament.
I'll keep an eye out for it. It's a shame so many of the old VPG games are out of print and so hard to find. Did Alan leave the copyrights with the designers? I'm surprised somebody hasn't negotiated for them and set up a company selling print-and-play versions to download for a small fee. Sort of like what Minden Games or Black Cat do on Wargame Vault. I think there's a business opportunity there.
Last I heard from Ben himself was he has the rights. It sounds like he has been very busy the past few years with his output of his many other games.
The subject is obscure. So publishers may be leary. The original artwork was quite dull.
Have you ever considered designing a SoS game? I know you've worked as a developer on some. As far as I know, Ben is the only person still designing them, and his designs are rather long and complex. Do you think there is still a market for new SoS games that could be played in an hour or less?
I had been thinking about buying Soviet Dawn for about 12 months but what pushed me to do it was reading you had played it over 2,000 time. Heck what was that all about ? What does it say about the game. Within the first five days I played it nearly 20 times. Lost many, won some. What a game. Reading your insights enabled me to start getting more strategic. Sorry Tzar !. Now I own Ottoman Empire, Hapsburg Eclipse, Keep Up The Fire, Malta Besieged. I'm holding off Cruel Necessity because of its inbuilt flaw. But thanks for introducing me into the world of SOS. Keep up the good work.
Thank-you. Introducing people to the fun of SoS games is really the point here. Thrilled to hear it.
I hope you are playing with this optional rules. They really enrich gameplay.
https://hitchkennedy.substack.com/p/recommended-optional-rules
Excellent all around. I hadn't considered the point on moving text to the rulebook or a playbook. This is the case with many CDGs where you get the headline and can check design notes in the rules. Of course that's motivated by the original published format but would take no more than one additional letter sheet in the rulebook, or 2 if being generous with font size.
I agree many criticisms are on account of a failure to engage with the game on its terms.
Don’t get me wrong. The headline is important. It needs to be punchy and engaging. It is part of the immersion, but only a part.
I noticed that many design decisions were baked-in and not to be challenged. I irritated Alan a lot as I kept asking ‘why?’
Re: White Dog, do you have a recommendation for a first game? I have OS, HE, and MB. Given previous DMs Jeff Davis or the Mission seem obvious choices.
No. Let me consult for a recommendation.
I find myself wary for a few reasons:
1) They tend to be long; 4-5 hours for the bigger games. An hour is my sweet spot.
2) Replacing cards with chits in later games is a different randomization model.
3) Their ambitions to be more a simulation. They really embrace their wargame roots.
4) The publisher doesn’t seem interested in selling games.
Don’t let me discourage you. I hear lots of good things from happy gamers I respect.
My buddy, who has played them all, recommends two games to get started:
1) Gorbachev because it is a compact design. Only 27 cards.
2) Global War is the pinnacle. Beware, it is a real beast in terms of rules and challenge.
One other thought - per my prior comment, SOS games to me are about the history and replay the events much like a history-flash-card experience, but with thought-provoking variations. I truly love this combination. However, the fact that I have such an interest in the card experience itself and the history also explains why I was so profoundly disappointed with VPG's re-release of OS and HE; the numerous typographical errors, right down to stating that WWI spanned "1914-1916" on the box cover one of these, and the fact that the historical event text are in, e.g., "2 point font" (i.e., I have trouble reading them WITH my readers) really corrupted their attempt to re-release these classics. These are games I frequently play and that I want in my library, and I am reminded about these notorious errors each and every time I take these games off the shelf, i.e., they manifest themselves in the part of the game I value most. For me, it's about the history, and I really wish that Worthington would pick up some of the other titles and re-release them, in the same fashion that they did for e.g., Soviet Dawn, i.e., with a big quality boost and with reasonably-sized, reasonably-error-free text.
I hear you. I understand how some errors can be maddening. Let it go. It is water under the bridge. Sadly, we live in an age of historical illiteracy.
Game publishing is full of challenges. With Tabletop Tycoon, the SoS games had no champion. There was no real developer who loved the games. Just a graphics guy with a million things to do. Darin asked me for a little help late in the game. The TT guy just wanted to get these projects off his list.
Worthington brings many strong talents, but they can also be sloppy. They are a small publisher with many projects. Getting projects done, even imperfectly, is a priority.
At least with VPG, SoS games had a champion. But, these versions also suffered from time constraints and strong design assumptions. Compromises every where.
My wife is a retired technical editor. Standards have slipped. Editing in general is in eclipse these days—books, journals, and apparently games, too.
We can all see it. Part of the larger problem is how the internet and various technologies discourage people from knowing things because you can look things up so easily. This was very useful in my former IT life. However, people’s general knowledge is much lower. Because of this, it is difficult to think deeply about anything.